Date: Wednesday, 1 August 1984 14:43 mst From: James J. Lippard Subject: Miscellaneous Digest V3 #21 Reply-To: {mbx >udd>Multics>Lippard>misc>misc} To: {list >udd>Multics>Lippard>misc>misc} Miscellaneous Digest Volume 3 : Issue 21 Today's topics: Administrivia Social Progress in New Jersey Interesting quotes (from Omni) snakes and mongooses (from INFO-COBOL) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wednesday, 1 August 1984 10:32 mst From: James J. Lippard Subject: vacation There won't be any digests for a while as I will be in Europe from tomorrow (August 2) until August 19. ------------------------------ Delivery-Date: 1 August 1984 14:27 mst Date: Wednesday, 1 August 1984 14:26 mst From: Pattin.Multics (Jay Pattin) Subject: Social Progress in New Jersey Hot Dog Vendor May be Too Pretty Monroe Township, NJ (AP) Officials want to close Gerry Clevenger's hot dog stand because they say she's simply too pretty to work on a street corner where she could cause an accident by distracting passing male motorists. "From what they tell me, she's an attractive girl [She's 30 - Jay]. I felt it was a nuisance," council president Vincent Tarentino said yesterday. The 30-year-old woman said she left her job as a cocktail waitress to begin peddling hot dogs because she wanted to be in the sun, work her own hours, and bring her 9-year-old son to work with her. She said she got the appropriate licenses to open Gerry's Hot Dog stand on Route 555 at a busy intersection in a rural section of this southern New Jersey community and never anticipated the controversy. "I haven't caused one accident in the two months that I've been here," she said. Tarentino said the intersection is heavily used. "She could cause an accident," he said. "If she wears short pants or a bathing suit, it would be a hazard if someone took their eyes off the road." Tarentino said lawmakers in the Gloucester County township were first told that Clevenger might pose a danger by Butch D'Allessandro, who owns Butch's Little Ponderosa across the street from Clevenger's stand. [AHA - Jay] "She will wave at these people to come in. I think it's a traffic hazard," D'Allessandro said. But he acknowledged that he does not like the competition. At a recent township council meeting, lawmakers discussed whether Clevenger "is causing a potential danger to motorists." The council also considered whether they should try to find a way to revise township ordinances to bar Clevenger's business from the corner. They reached no decision. [There is a picture of her above the article. She's cute, and doesn't really look 30. My first comment was that this was the first time a pretty woman had ever been sighted in New Jersey, so they were understandably confused. - Jay] ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 31 July 1984 23:07 mst From: RLLeatherwood Subject: Interesting quotes Following are some interesting quotes from the pages of OMNI: Every exit is an entry somewhere else. -Tom Stoppard I never assumed I was not like my pigeons. -B. F. Skinner I have no time to be in a hurry. -John Wesley When a thing is funny, search it for a hidden truth. -George Bernard Shaw Fun is like insurance: the older you get, the more it costs. -Kim Hubbard A rumor without a let to stand on will get around some other way. -John Tudor A lie is an abomination unto the Lord, and a very present help in trouble. -Adlai Stevenson I don't mind your thinking slowly; I mind you publishing faster than you think. -Wolfgang Pauli In baiting a mousetrap with cheese, always leave room for the mouse. -Saki He that's born to be hanged needn't fear water. -Irish proverb What you see but can't see over is as good as infinate. -Thomas Carlyle What will be will be well, for what is is well. -Walt Whitman If nobody said anything unless he knew what he was talking about, a ghastly hush would descent upon the earth. -Sir Alan Herbert It's funny the way most people love the dead. Once you're dead you're made for life. -Jimi Hendrix What scientists have in their briefcases is terrifying. -Nikita Khrushchev I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. -Graffito ------------------------------ Delivery-Date: 1 August 1984 09:08 mst Delivery-By: Network_Server.Daemon at MIT-MULTICS (BAGLEY@MIT-OZ@MIT-MC) Date: Wednesday, 1 August 1984 07:37 mst From: Steven Christopher Bagley Subject: [Shrager.pa: From the Stanford BBoard -- Snakes Alive!] Redistributed-Delivery-Date: 1 August 1984 11:38 mst Redistributed-Delivery-By: Network_Server.Multics (Pattin.PDO@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA) Redistributed-Date: 1 August 1984 10:29 mst Redistributed-From: Jay Pattin Redistributed-To: Pattin at HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS Redistributed-Date: 1 August 1984 14:24 mst Redistributed-From: Pattin Redistributed-To: {mbx >udd>m>jjl>misc>misc} Received: from MIT-MC by MIT-OZ via Chaosnet; 31 Jul 84 05:56-EDT Received: from Semillon.ms by ArpaGateway.ms ; 31 JUL 84 02:44:14 PDT Date: 31 Jul 84 02:44 PDT From: Shrager.pa@XEROX.ARPA Subject: From the Stanford BBoard -- Snakes Alive! To: Bagley@MIT-MC.ARPA ----- Begin Forwarded Messages ----- Date: 30 Jul 84 11:39:13 PDT (Monday) From: Don Woods Subject: From the Stanford BBoard -- Snakes Alive! To: AllWhimsy^, Lighthearted^ Reply-To: Woods.PA The following series of messages accumulated recently on the Stanford electronic BBoards. Much of the initial exchange is merely silly and/or boring, but it sets the stage for a couple of fine expositions toward the end. (Protocol note: Each new message after the original posting begins with the person's initials or other login name. I've removed all the other message header cruft to cut down on the size of the thing.) -- Don. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri 29 Jun 84 15:56:42-PDT From: Constance S. Lopez Subject: Trivia To: Su-bboard@SU-SIERRA.ARPA cc: Connie@SU-SIERRA.ARPA Does anybody remember the name of the snake in Walt Disney's movie, The Jungle Book? Respond to Connie@SIERRA, please. JMC - How about looking it up in the Jungle Book by Rudyard Kipling? Incidentally, it is believed that Kipling really existed and was not just an invention of the Walt Disney public relations people. PB - Hmm, I seem to recall Kipling writing something about a snake called Riki-Tiki-Tavi. PACK@SU-SCORE - Rikki-Tikki-Tavi was a Mongoose. The snake in that story (at least one of them) was named Nag, I believe. CONNIE@SU-SIERRA - Thank you one and all who responded to my question - the majority says its name is "Kaa". I also appreciate knowing that Kipling's storey is the basis of the movie by Walt Disney. TREITEL@SUMEX - Right. "Nag" is the word for "snake" in one of the languages spoken in that part of the world where Kipling acquired the material for his Indian stories. "How do you like Kipling?" "I don't know, I've never kippled." When tactical atomic weapons become accurate enough to take out Walt Disney Productions without harming any innocent human beings, I'll go shopping. SANKAR@SU-SCORE - Re: Snakes, Kipling, Rikki-Tikki-Tavi, etc. Rudyard Kipling CERTAINLY existed, and he existed for quite some time in India. His is a household name throughout the country. He has written a large number of books related to wild life of the type found in India. Rikki-Tikki-Tavi is as some others have pointed out, the name of a mongoose. Nag is male snake in Hindi. Female snake is Nagin. (I think I am right.) Its pronounced N-aa-g and N-aa-g-in , the g pronounced as in get, rather than as in gin. Though there are words in English like "last", "fast", "can't" etc, where we do have long a's ( -aa- ) as we have been pronouncing these words in India, these -aa-'s are generally pronounced as a short a out here(I may not have described the pronounciation out here right, but its certainly different from the way we pronounce it). Maybe because of this, you may have trouble pronouncing Naag and Naagin(the way I would prefer to spell them, and that's how they are spelt quite often), but go ahead and try it out. Vardi@diablo - Riki-Tiki-Tavi is a mo(o)ngo(o)se (I'm not sure how many o's are needed). It is a snake eater. SANKAR@SU-SCORE - Re: Moshe Vardi's message on Mongoose Regarding your message, mongoose(has the correct number of o's) is an English word, so a dictionary would be your best bet for any info. The next sentence "It is a snake eater" is WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!! The mongoose has the agility to avoid getting bitten by snakes like the cobra, and therefore has the ability to kill them. Incidentally, peacocks (an English word) also have the ability to kill snakes, but they again do not eat them. (I include peahens along with peacocks). Mongoose (I think that's the plural) eat stuff like insects, while peacocks and peahens are vegetarians. (These birds eat up all the egg-plants that fruit at my parent's home!! Egg-plants seem to be their favourite from our vegetable garden.) MOGUL@SU-SCORE - Since you suggested looking in a dictionary, I did. Mine says that the plural of "mongoose" is "mongooses" (darn, I was hoping for "mongeese"); further, it defines it as a "ferret-like, flesh-eating mammal" ... so maybe it eats more than insects. Also, while we're being picky: "egg-plant" is spelled, in current usage, without the hyphen: "eggplant". SANKAR@SU-SCORE - Maybe it is mongooses. Thank you for the info. Is this in American, or English or in both? They certainly are flesh eating mammals, but the ones I have known relish insects. I have been used to brinjal all my life, so eggplant is new to me. By the way what would happen if I asked for ladies-fingers at a shop instead of okra? I'm not seriously flaming, take it easy. JLH.STEVE@SU-SIERRA - Disney seems to be getting some bad media presentation in the BBoards lately. I agree that some fine literary plots were butchered more or less wholesale by WED (The Jungle Book, The Sword in the Stone, etc.). However, in terms of animation and art, they are (sorry, were) second to none in feature-length production and second only to Warner in their terrific early shorts. Where are today's animators? DON - Ah yes, Disney's terrific early shorts. I'm reminded of one of the entries in the New York Magazine competition to construct a fortuitous movie marquis: "The Bride Wore Black and selected shorts". By the way, anybody who's watched peacocks and peahens for very long will realise that the genderless term for the critters is "peabrain". (I know some loser out here in BBoard-land will now conclude I don't really know that it's "peafowl" and that, what's more, I want to be told about it.) I'm also reminded of Walt "Pogo" Kelly's observation that "the mongoose is a singular beast because nobody can pronounce two of them." Pratt@Navajo - Subject: Snakes alive - please! I was more than a little upset to see, in the middle of a serious research project on names of snakes, Disney's piddling bit of bad press being defended without some defense also being made of a much greater victim of bad press, from such notable reporters as Moses (Genesis 3), Kipling (who took the mongoose's side), and Hart (Peter, not Gary). As every student of bipartite graphs knows, the ecological world, like Gaul, is divided into two teams that eat, kill, maim, loathe, or send bills to, each other. Let Team X be the one with the snakes and Team Y the other. This establishes for peacocks and mongooses, those desperate killers of snakes, membership in Team Y. And it establishes the same membership for gophers, those deserving victims of gopher snakes. Let us now consider, in turn and without prejudice, the vices and virtues of each of these creatures. The Gopher: As compelling as the blinding revelation to St. Paul is the recent ecological evidence that, from benevolent leviathan to meek snail darter, every creature great or small in these two teams plays an indispensible role in the continuing rotation of the earth on its axis. Every creature, that is, save the gopher. Members of Team Y know from birth the shame of their membership, and all know the root of their shame: the black sheep of their team, the gopher. Did I say "save the gopher?" Bite my tongue. Of course you may not own a lawn, in which case you may not have realized the extent to which the gopher has jeopardized the delicate fabric of the known ecological universe. Actually you used to own a lawn - you surely remember playing on it when you were little. How come you don't own it any more? Probably a gopher ate it. Now please let's not have any more of that "gophers don't eat lawns, they only kill them" poppycock. At the zoo live lawn sods are thrown to the milling gophers at the 4:00 pm feeding time. They had to move the 5:00 pm piranha feeding time up to 3:00 pm to get anyone to come. The Peacock: I wonder if my neighbor's peacock, as a killer of gopher-killing snakes, is devaluing both our houses? The Mongoose: If you look for this creature in your 1896 Webster's unabridged you will be disappointed. You will however find both the mongoos and the mungoos in your 1956 unabridged, who though spelled differently cannot tell each other apart even in broad daylight. In yet more recent editions it would appear that Noah capitulated to the British spelling, mongoose (pl. mongooses, BBOARD's July contribution to our orthographic enlightenment). The 1956 entry defines this beast as "a species of ichneumon of India." This entry reflects an era in which dictionary writers vied with each other for the longest path from a word to something the reader had a prayer of recognizing. If you allow yourself to be drawn into this game you will discover that the ichneumon is "a weasel-like digitigrade carnivore." The experienced player will at this point discount "digitigrade" as a noise word like "the" or "very" or "hypogynous" and call it a tie. Contributors to the downmarket Webster's New World Dictionary were denied the privileges accorded the contributors to the Unabridged and driven to the low fog-quotient entry, "a ferretlike, flesh-eating animal of India, known for its ability to kill rats, poisonous snakes, etc." You are by now asking yourself, what do I do when a neighbor frantically calls me up late at night to ask whether I think the animal chasing his cat around his lawn is a weasel or a mongoose. You instantly see his predicament: if it turns out to be a mongoose, bye-bye, gopher snakes and bye-bye, lawn. For such occasions it would be immensely helpful if you had had the foresight to tape the following extract from the Encyclopaedia Brittanica to your refrigerator. ----------------------- MONGOOSE, the name applied to weasel-like carnivores of the subfamily Herpestinae (see CARNIVORA), widely distributed in Asia and Africa, with a single species in southern Spain. The Indian mongoose is smaller than the Egyptian animal, with fur of a brownish grey colour, the hairs being largely white-ringed, while the cheeks and throat are more or less reddish. It is especially serviceable in India as a serpent-killer, destroying not only the eggs and young of these creatures but killing the most venomous adult snakes. The mongoose is not immune to the snake's poison, falling a victim as rapidly as any other animal when bitten. By its agility and quickness of eye, it avoids the fangs of the snake while fixing its own teeth in the back of the reptile's neck. Moreover, when excited, the mongoose erects its long stiff hair, and it must be difficult for a snake to drive its fangs through this and the thick skin which all the members of the genus possess. The mongoose is equally dextrous in killing rats and other vermin. For the effects of the introduction of the mongoose into Jamaica, see F. Finn, Wild Animals of Yesterday and To-day, 1st ed., London. ----------------------- Of course if mongooses recognized gophers as vermin it would be a different story. Since they are on the same team this is unfortunately mere wishful thinking. I must confess to some discomfort with this idea that mongooses do not eat what they kill. We have all been brought up to believe that animals honorably distinguish themselves from humans by refusing to be drawn into this immoral practice. I cannot find any reliable authorities willing to commit either way on the matter of whether they (the mongooses, not the authorities) eat the snakes they kill. So I have come up with my own theory, based on what I would imagine a Stanford football player would do in analogous circumstances hunting Big Game with his Axe in the California forest. A hungry player encountering a bear cub (of the type associated with UC) would follow his instincts and use his Axe to kill and eat the cub. (You and I of course would use a knife and fork for the eating part.) If the mother were to appear during the meal, he may find it necessary to kill the mother in self-defense, an act seen first only as a tragedy, but then shading into immorality as he realized that eating the mother was beyond even his capacity. Ursicide, but since it was in self-defence it was only a little white ursicide. Now I theorize that the unfortunate mongoose finds himself in just this predicament. There he is, joyfully driving up his cholesterol with irresistible snake eggs, and thinking of starting up a snake farm to keep up the supply, naturally giving a percentage to the snakes, when who should come back home but Mrs. Snake. The snake attacks the mongoose, and in an astounding flurry . . . but no, we know that in life's big adventure the snake has to lose this one. Sigh, sighs the mongoose, killed the snake that lays the golden eggs. And I can't eat her 'cause she's too tough and I'm too (burp) full. Well, self-defence. My little white anguicide. If you have a better theory, or a better word than anguicide, I am sure the Encyclopaedia B. would be the ideal place to send it to. The Snake: Hopefully I have made it clear by now which team has my enthusiastic support. When it comes to bad press the snake has a few thousand years head start on Walt Disney, and the periodic episodes of snake abuse and attempted anguicide in B.C. remind us regularly that Walt isn't doing all that much to increase his percentage. -v Greep@SU-CSLI - Some comments: Maybe we can terminate the discussion of snakes by terminating the snakes. This could be done by using genetic engineering techniques to develop a class of meta-snakes which would devour the snakes. Should the meta-snakes prove to be as much of a nuisance as the snakes themselves, meta-meta-snakes would be needed. Possibly this would close on itself after order omega (like a snake chasing its own tail), then we could start to think about serious problems like NP-completeness, why the French insist on speaking French, and whether pigs have wings. Lawns: most lawns are not consumed by gophers. They evolve into parking lots, bowling alleys, and buildings for organizations with names like "Center for X", where X is a phrase consisting primarily of words of Latin or Greek derivation. Some lawns are inorganic, consisting of cement coated with green paint, and thus are subject neither to evolution nor to the ravages of underfed gophers, although it does not appear to be effective in protecting them against street crews determined to dig up the entire city looking for a leaky water pipe. Peacocks: I thought they were invented by NBC? (Mongoose)* [i.e. zero or more of these things]: Do they exist? Noting that this word is nearly an anagram of "gone-moose", I speculate that the derivation was similar to that of the word "scape-goat", i.e. came from a moose that was gone. Since it was gone, there was no way of telling what it looked like, and after countless generations some inventive person probably decided it must have actually been a different animal altogether whose name was somehow confused with "moose", and by a process of back-formation arrived at the hypothetical proto-name "mongoose*". PB - I nominate Vaughan Pratt for the Russell Baker guest columnist award. I nominate Greep to accompany his explanation to the Encyclopedia Brittanica. (please take no offense, greep). But will a mongoose kill an iguana? ----- End Forwarded Messages ----- ------------------------------ End of Miscellaneous Digest ***************************