Here are some of the responses I've received to the information on this page. I've left them as is, except for a) removing the names to protect privacy, and b) reformatting them to fit the screen better.
This is a long file...I suggest downloading it to your computer and reading it off-line.
My thanks to everyone who took the time to contribute their opinions.
[NOTE: Some of these messages contain offensive language]
Hi!
I would like to raise some points. First Amway is playing monopoly. In order to get the greatest profit Amway wouldn't like to face the fact of competing in a capitalist market. Amway restrict all its distributor not to sell Amway product into the public, or display it publicly. This is absurb if Amway say distributors are in no way affliated with Amway. Then Amway distributors have every right to sell what is belonging to them. There is no law in the United States of America restricting distributors to not sell Amway products in the public. Amway THREATEN distributors to take their rights away if they see that distributors are selling Amway product publicly. There is one reason why Amway would like to do this, they want to play monopoly. This is slimmy at best, and disgusting at worst!
Second Amway is brainwashing people. People are very vulunerable when they loose friends and family members. In order to get approval from friends and family members they need to follow through what they are doing. Amway plays an unethical principle. To ensure them maximizing profit, Amway by any means destroy the relationship between friends and families by subjecting them to join Amway. If an individual doesn't, their friends and families will scruntize them. This will have an adverse affects on the individual's psychology.
Thrid Amway are not working hard for their money. If Amway think they are all bad ass, then let them compete in the capitalist market. In order to make society better off we must reach an equilibrium. By having a monopoly in an industry there is so much dead weight loss, and create so much inefficiency. To understand what I'm saying you must learn Economics.
My personal comment: Amway need to be open to a competing market!
My close friend left her husband after he refused to seek marital counseling outside of Amway. She had dutifully gone to talk with his uplines' wives who told her - get this - that in order to be happy she must submit not only to her husband but also "the business." He drove them to near bankruptcy, even selling the kitchen table and chairs for money, before she finally left. He never saw his baby, but somehow they had him believing that he was a better father for this, working the business so hard and all. When she met him he announced, "I'm going to be a millionaire by the time I am thirty." Well, he is way past thrity and now $30,000 in debt from attending functions. But "freedom" is just a year away. The brainwashing is downright frightening. He never spoke to us since we emphatically said "NO" when he approached us. We had already beened conned by several so-called friends. I attended so many meetings at one point I could have gotten up and started drawing the circles for the other poor dupes. I listened to the tapes and I know how easy it is to buy into "the dream." Greed is a powerful incentive. At one of the last meetings I attended, I began to name off a few of my dreams, the important ones like growing closer to my God, being a Christian mother to my children and mate to my spouse. The speaker had a really hard time linking those dream circles to that big dollar sign in the middle of his world. For those of you who shamefully try and connect Christ to your greed - "reevaluate." The Father weeps for the mockery you perpetuate.
hey Sid,
You heard this comment plenty of times. Your webpage is very interesting and does a public service.
However, I happen to like "Glister" toothpaste. My dentist commented on how well my teeth are after one year of Glister. (Amway gives so much that is takes a year to finish that large tube)
keep up the great work!
You have done an excelent job, so far as I can see in the thoroughness with which you find relevant points of negativity in this thing called the Amway business opportunity. The price comparisons using old information for example was interesting, as was your method in determining what prices you didn't know.
I am no enemy of yours, but the one thing i strongly disagreed with is that you have a very limited view of the "systems" Amway distributors use.
The first thing is that you are absolutely correct in that many lines of sponsorship use a system of training and motivation that is meant to help the new distributor remember why he is involved when negative people try to swerve him/her away. It is true also that these systems can and do cost money, and in some cases more than that distributor rightly needs to be paying ACCORDING TO HIS FINANCIAL SITUATION. My particular line of sponsorship teaches us not to forsake family obligations for this business. we call it a vertical alignment, a fancy name for priorities. those priorities are, in this order, God,family as a whole, children,your job, Amway,you. that has nothing to do with Amway itself. do you understand the difference? the difference is that we chose to run our business according to that priority list, as was our right, while you as a distributor may choose to do differently. the system of training and motivation is, yes, the wrench set that keeps the drive turning when it wants to rust, or as it is more commonly referred to by you as "tools". Amway did not choose that or promote that. In fact if I ran a hair salon, I would choose my employees by a standard I chose cause I payed for it, and since it is my hair salon, that is my right. haior dressing is not vilified by my hiring practices.
the "system" then is an individual choice that youcan make to help yourself learn the ins and outs of promoting an Amway business. choice, sir, gives no room for sorrow. Don't blame amway for "brainwashing". They have nothing to do with that, and each distributor can ignore the system and do it on their own if they "choose". I am not on sot(standing order tape), nor am I on Amvox, the awesome voice messaging product we have from MCI, nor am I on the reading program my direct Ruby Distributor would like us all to participate in. Doing those things and four others is referred to as being CORE in my line of sponsorship, and its funny, but I did $200 in retail sales last month, plus my own personal use, with no one sponsored under me. For that reason, the system is obviously not the way I am reaching success, yet in our line, retail sales is very much encouraged and taught at organizational meetings, on videos and of course on some cassettes.
You say we don't retail enough, that personal use is the only focus, and so many people have talked about being a loser if you arent core. quite frankly ive heard those words from many distributors, so it does not surprise me that that pisses you off. it pisses me off too. however, those distributors who put that pressure on their distributors before those downline grow a retail business to pay for all that--like I definitely have--usually find those distributors to be useless and lacking in the number one asset network marketers have to have to be successful:duplicatability. You have singled out the rotten apples, and the elitist lines of sponsorship that can't adapt to other ways of doing things. Guess what: our system teaches us to be an expert in the in home shopping service first! Guess what? Amway is a bunch of numbers and products you can put together in any combination to make what we all need, admit it or not : $$$$$
The systems you're fond of blasting are the ones i'm fond of blasting too, because they produce amaroids:mindless robots that cant apply what the system teaches and are too dull to try something else, or too afraid their sponsor will denegrate them for it. That pisses me off to. Yet i'm still here cause we don't teach that.
Amaroids are what you should attack, not EVERY system and not Amway. Amaroids exist from the Crown Ambassadore level on down to a 100pv distributor. Those are people choices, defended by the constitution that allows you to produce such a negative page. These people have found what they want, they have quantified and qualified it in their minds and all they want is a shot at fulfilling it in the least stressful way possible. Amway, like it or not, is a legitimate way to do it and when you succeed at it, it won't be in spite of some "evil system of the Amway cult", but most probably with the help of it. If you don't need the help, more power to you. But as long as pages like this exist, new distributors will need something akin to a security blanket to protect that drive and dream til confidence can surround them instead. That blanket is a system of teaching voluntarily available to all and I pray as well as you do that the next guy to get in never feels forced, but instead sees some some wisdom in learning the business before he does it.
Yes, some prices are higher than others. What do you know? some are lower!!! big deal. if you balance a retail business with personal use, that wont ever worry you. As for quality:refer yourself to consumer reports January or February i believe. it mentions Dish drops and Shaklee as THE runners up!!! Yes it mentions that they are pricy. It does not show a cost per use basis, the only relevant comparison and clearly the one you need to look at. By the way, the number one reason why I use the products is that my customers sem to like them an awful lot. I'd say they have no reason to lie, wouldn't you? Proof is in the pudding not in the lab.
Please post this.
My neighbor has been an Amway distributor for 4 years now, and I have watched from the outside for this length of time. They tried to get me into it, and they wanted a list of my friends too. In neither case were they successful. In the meantime, I have listened to some tapes, and heard him talk at length about all the Amway-made millionaires that he knows, and what great people they are.
The first thing that turns me off, is the appeal to greed. To me, this is financial pornography. This is a very effective way to start the mind control process. It is essential to turn off one's good judgment and let the emotional side take over. This is the first step.
The next step, now that greed has started to take over the mind, is to use fear. Fear of being broke, dying broke and friendless or at least to not have the best for one's family. No credible Amway pitch is without these two elements.
The third step is to point the frazzled individual to the Amway way of life as the only solution to this predicament. To discredit any other honest means of providing wealth. Investments are shunned, as the stock market is "too risky" or too difficult for the average Joe to dabble with.
Over time, I have seen this, and I have these thoughts to offer:
1. Greed - The appeal to greed is purely misguided. If I give money to a greedy man, is this not like trying to put out a fire with gasoline? Several months after I bought my Range Rover, I began to think about how much I needed another one. So I ask you, if you are greedy, when do you have enough? The answer is NEVER. The more things you acquire, the bigger the fire gets.
I have seen the pictures of Dave Severn's house. I have heard the speakers talk about how they travel the world. But when I ask to see tax returns, or some other means of proof, I am told "That is a personal matter". How personal could it be given the fact that I was just told that "millions of dollars a year go through this individual's direct line". To me, it sounds like meaningless chatter.
To me, there is really only a weak relationship between having a meaningful life, and having a lot of money. Yes, I drive a Range Rover, but I bought it used. And it cost about what a new Toyota Corrola does.
When Ghandi died, his personal possessions were worth less than 2 dollars. But I think history shows that he lived a "meaningful life".
2. Debt Free - Face it. A home mortgage is cheapest source of money around. I don't think I would ever want to pay my house off. Why would I ever want to tie up that much money in an investment that pays only 4 or 5 percent return? In fact, I wrote to my mortgage company and asked if I could get an infinite term loan. Then, I could take the 58 dollars a month that goes to the principle, and invest that. In 30 years, I would far more money than just selling the house would net.
Manage your debt, but don't worry about paying all of it off. Pay the high interest stuff and refinance the rest through home equity.
3. Time - We all want more time. But until you build the business, you need to line up as many babysitters as possible, so that you don't miss any functions. I will never miss my little girl growing up for any reason. The time I spend with my family is gold. Anything that takes up this much time is not worth it.
And when I build my network, can I retire? Does the CEO of a major corporation retire when he gets to the top? NO! The organization takes constant care and feeding. The numbers must be maintained, or grown. What would make me think that I could put my Amway business on autopilot while I drive across China in search of the best egg-foo-yung?
4. Products - I don't care that I can buy corn flakes cheaper through Amway (which I can't). I never buy the name brand. If I can save $5 a weeks by buying the off brand, this is about 250 dollars a year. Over time, this is big money.
5. Network Marketing - The Megatrend. My neighbor believes that eventually MLMs and network marketing will be the biggest new thing since the information age. I find this hard to believe, given the success of Wal Mart. I also buy big things from the Internet. Efficiency and economy of scale. These are the real megatrends.
In conclusion. It is upsetting that people are being taken advantage of in this manner. In a tape by Greg Duncan, he mentions that the lawyers told him he had to say that success was not guaranteed. If Amway is the "best business in America" why would the lawyers tell him to say something like that? Maybe a better way of putting if is to say that "Amway is allegedly the best marginal business in America".
Think clearly. Make business decisions based on proof. And when greed and lust for money take over, walk away and never look back.
Hi Sidney,
I have a question I hope you can answer for me. I was recently approached by a very successful dentist on something called Interactive Distribution. He claims it's not Amway but they still sell Amway products and all the other items. Customers are able to order their own supplies in several ways. 1) calling a 800 number 2) use their computer with software provided 3) on their TV(via the internet) Everything will get delivered right to the door. Is this still Amway? And if so, is it any better than the old Amway? A good friend of mine just signed up and I would to convince him to quit if it's just the same old thing. Thanks for your time and I hope to hear from you soon.
Actually, I have a question for you. Is it not clear that it is the peoplein Amway that mess it up, and not Amway? If the company was a total fraud, everybody would see the same results. I am in no cult nor am I asked to do things I don't want to or buy things I don't want to. I will, however; be the first to admit that there are a bunch of Amroids running around ruining the whole situaution. I just wish you would dedicate the page to ripping on those idiot's and not the best free enterprise system there is. And I don't just mean Amway. I think that if you are careful and select a good MLM and work it, you can be successful. Were you involved in Amway at some point? If so, were you affiliated with a group such as Network 21, or World Wide Dreambuilders? Good luck with your page.
Your page is a real eye opener. I always thought Amway seemed like a cult and after reading your page I completely believe it is a cult. My boyfriend is involved in Amway and is struggling to get his business off the ground. He has been at it for 2 years now. He works on his business all the time. We never take the weekend to go do something fun, he always has a meeting or seminar to goto. I've tried to talk to him about taking a weekend off but he just says I'm trying to "steal his dream" and then gets upset. I don't know what to do. Maybe if I show him your site it will change his mind a little.
Dear Mr. Schwartz,
I found your web page very interesting! My daughter & her husband have been hounded this past year by her husband's brother to join Amway. They have told him VERY FIRMLY that they are NOT interested and don't want to discuss it further, but of course he can't give up. Lately, he told them that he and his wife were taking courses in something called "raeke" (pronounced ray-key) and would pray for them. They would feel "heat" spread through their bodies at the actual time they prayed for them. I told my daughter that I would try to see if there was anything on the web about raeke, but haven't discovered anything. Have you ever heard of this? Do you know if this is some new Amway gimmick? These people are sooooo into Amway that I can't see them getting involved in anything outside of Amway.
Keep up the good work! I downloaded some of your articles for my daughter. They absolutely confirm her opinion of this SCAM!
Hi Sydney!
Great web site! You certainly helped to save my bank account from going down the drain and into my upline!! The following is a series of "conversations" I had with an Amway distributer who left his e-mail address on the response page. I thought your readers might find it interesting!
Hi "L"!
I just read your response in the Amway: The untold story. I was a distributor once but am not any more. I have lots of tools that I would be happy to sell to you. Do e-mail me back to let me know if you are interested or not. I was in the Yeager organization.
"Z"
(His response)
Why are you no longer a distributor?
My New Years Resolution: I will respect the President from the day he is inagurated until he resigns in disgrace
(My response)
I had better things to do with my time. I am now also at peace with myself. That is worth more than all the money in the world.
Are you interested in the "tools"?
"Z"
(His response)
Sorry I can not accept the tools. That would be crosslining and distributors can't do that! Well I'm sorry you are no longer a distributor but as long as you are at peace with yourself and others that is the only thing that matters.
(My reply)
Hi "L"!
Getting tools from me would not be crosslining because you get the same tools from your upline. I would not be advising you on your business. It would be like you going to a function and buying the tools. No questions asked and no answers given. The only reaseon is you don't want the tools is because your upline won't allow you to do it because he/she will not be able to make his profit from those tapes. Diamonds keep saying "the key to building a large organization is the system" Well they are absolutely right. If everyone from Dexter on down is making a little bit of the tapes ($1-2 per tape) You can see why the key to building a large business is the tapes.
So if a person has 500 people downline and 400 are plugged in lets say getting 5 tapes a month and the profit is $1 per tape, that person would make $2000/ month off the system. My upline diamond said he had 20,000 people downline. If 15,000 were "plugged in" he would make $100,000 /month FROM THE SYSTEM. It is estimated that Don Storms has 500,000 people in his organization...well you do the math. Why do you think he keeps crying on his tapes...system,system,system.
I don't know what level you are at. If you already know this and making money from others, well good for you. If you are not at that level, then my friend you may have some thinking to do.
BTW have you heard about an "exclusive" function for men only put out by Dexter called YMNI. If you haven't ask your upline, he may not even know. Ask your Emerald, he will definately know. I was at a YMNI function. If you want to know more about it e-mail me back.
If you have read this far down then I congratulate you for getting this far. It is time that the truth came out, just like you would like the truth to come out about Bill Clinton and Newt Gingerith (however you spell his last name).
I wish you much peace and success in whatever you choose to do.
"Z"
(His reply)
"Z"
I am not interested in your tools . I have access to every tool made and I have no problem with an upline profiting . if a person started where you or I started and built a large business . he has the right to sell his knowledge and help others improve their selves and make money also . authors of books , motivational speakers such as zig ziggler , les brown , chuck swindoll , ect. , all profit from the books and tapes they make and sell . the real world makes money off every thing you buy . I don't care if it is shave cream , or toilet paper ,or diapers ! the thing I see is that you don't like to see someone that you know profit . but you let others that you don't know profit off your earnings . I would rather pay my children to watch their younger bros. and sisters and keep the money in the family then pay some one else who takes that same cash out of the family . this is the same as letting your upline profit . you can have any amount of success in any thing as long as you believe in your self ....
(My reply)
Hi "L"
Now we are on the same understanding about profits made through the system. I would have no trouble accepting that the upline makes a profit IF it was told to me and other prospects that a profit is made. When "the plan" is presented and we talk about the corporate sponsor with the product side and the system side, we all talk about how the money is made on the product side BUT nothing is said about the system side except that we have access to these great people who are willing to help us grow our business (almost sounds like it is done for free). We are made to believe that the tools we get are at "wholesale cost". If in the plan we explained that money can be made via the system once you reach a certain level and we explain how that money is made then great. When I buy a book by Zig Ziegler or Les Brown or a tape by Garth Brookes I KNOW that they are making a profit and I buy because I CHOOSE to buy. With the tapes in the system we are TOLD to buy this and that without knowing that certain upline is making money off it and that along with them trying to help us, their motivation may be to make a buck for themselves. If I know that and I do it great! If I don't know it then that is deceit.
I do not get bothered by making money by charging others. I have a very successful business in which I do that AND my clients know that I am doing that. So what I am saying is that, when the upline "recommends" tapes, that the downline people be made aware that the upline may also have other motives. The next time you show the plan, make sure you tell your prospect about that. If you can show the income that can be generated from that alone, you sponsoring rate may just increase!!
You talk about your upline and downline being a family and how everyone is such good friends with each other. Believe me it is all a farce. Everyone is in it for themselves. If someone had told me that when I was in "the system" I would have told them that they were a liar. But last year, when my wife and I were going through some major challanges, everyone in my upline knew about it. All the way up to my "diamond" lady. I would talk to her about it, while providing my professional services to her and her family. When I decided to step out and figure out my life, not ONE of them called me to check to see if I was OK. My personal sponsor just lives down the road from me. They are all in it for themselves. If a day ever comes when you decide to leave, you will find out. I know you don't believe me now, but my friend when the time is right you will believe me.
take care
"Z"
(There was no further reply from him)
Keep up the good work Sid..... your web page helped give me the strength to get over my brain washing.
yours truly, Former Silver Producer
I recently read your page and am quite disturbed by the comments made by some of the writings of your visitors. I dont take kindly to being called a brainwashed person because I have an ambition level that preceeds most of our society. Just because someone misunderstood some things that someone said. So to make themself feel better for there lack or inability to produce profit from one of the easiest businesses I have ever known. The Amway bashing that I have heard in the last few years that I have been in the business, is about the most digusting display of self-absorbence I have ever seen. In the society that we live in today, we are considered generation X because of lack of direction.The only reason we have lack of direction is because of the liberalist point of view that I found in your pages. There is no oposing view to your little Amway-bash. There is only a closed minded view that you dont think that anyone has a mind of there own and that they have to be saved from the big evil of Amway. That is such a big bunch of crock that I almost didnt even respond to your page. Though I figured that the little minds that you feature in your retoric does not express the whole picture of all people. If more people thought the way your little ontorage thought our society would be in trouble, oh sorry I guess most society does think the way you do and it is in trouble. In case your closed-mindedness didnt understand that, that statement was sarcasm. If more people had the values supported by the majority of the Amway distibutors, then our society would be in a hell of a lot better disposition. With moral degredation being shown on public televion, in examples of homo sexuality, premarital sex, violence, and the all around cricifiction of christianity as a whole. It is no wonder that the ideas presented at an Amway function would be misconstrude as an occult. Since they support the ideas that a good life of happiness and working together are now ways of a forgotten civalization, it is no wonder that society as we
Sid:
I read an interesting and chilling story in the Wall Street Journal yesterday (5/14) on Amway's efforts overseas, especially in the Philippines. A lot of people are convinced, apparently, that they are going to be rich.
I wonder: has Amway implemented the foreign expansion because Americans are seen as more sophisticated and less likely to buy the Amway line?
A point to ponder.
Hello Sidney,
Just a quick email to say hello and keep up the good work.
Hi
Thank you for taking the time to inform people about mlm and amway. I have seen a messages from a number of people who have a story like mine. My boyfriend is involved in a mlm very similar to amway. He has been for the past year spending all his time and money on "his business" He has easily spent $6,000 in the past year on training seminars, while he waits tables and lives on credit cards. All of his self-esteem is wrapped up in being successful. I know he sees me as negative, but I am scared for him. I have read books and searched the internet for the pros and cons of mlm. After three months of trying to be more open-minded, I still am uncomfortable with it. Is there a discussion group on the net to help me find people who are dealing with the same situation with love ones? thank you.
You're worthy of pity, Mr. Schwartz.
What is your beef with Amway?
Have they wronged you in the past?
I must say I am impressed with your Web Site, I wish I had seen this in 1990.
I Joined Amway (INA Organization) in 1990 & earned a Ruby Direct level (with 21 active legs) by 1994. I was forced to leave Amway Business at Ruby Direct Level because I am not a Christian & I objected to "Christian prayers" at the seminars.
My objection went to the Chief Operating officer of Amway ( Tom Eggelston -1994 ) and then I was finally told by my upline Diamond in the following words "S, you are building a huge business, but your objections and non-aligning views with our views(Christianity) will not get you any where. Don't rock the boat".
I confirmed that I did not believe that a Distributor's Income should not be based on their religious believes and I should have the same opportunity as any one else in the Amway's higher levels. I was told that unless "I subscribed to same philosophy (Christianity) I will not be allowed to make "tapes" at the higher levels." Since tapes is the majority of the income at the higher levels (80+%), my continuos objections to Christian prayers at the Company meetings and my upline's attempts to "CONVERT" and "SAVE" me to Christianity left me no choice but to file a complaint with with AMWAY & then Federal Trade Commission. At this time I was told by my upline Diamond "Mr. *" that I was "an enemy ". In May 1995 I decided to leave my thriving Amway business because I did not believe in a company the discriminated against people based on their religion and race. I later withdrew my complaint from FTC because of negative energy I had to pour into the lawsuit .
Based on my knowledge and updating the software that handles the products and tapes for Direct Distributors, I truly believe the following incomes are fairly accurate for my self and my fellow Direct Distributors : Each level is subtracting the monthly expenses anywhere from minimum $200/month to $600/month)
Monthly Incomes: -------- AMWAY INCOME----- --OTHER INCOME---
LEVEL # of People in DL Low End Avg. Income from
buying Monthly Tapes income income Selling tapes etc.
-------------------- --------- -------- ----------
1000 PV 5 $-150 $-100 $0
2500 PV 15 $0 $ 100 $0
4000 PV 25 $250 $ 500 $0
7500 PV 40 $450 $ 800 $0
7500 PV(Direct)50 $450 $ 800 $500+free shipping
15000 PV(Ruby) 70 $1050 $1200 $2000+free shipping
Emerald 190+ $1000 $2000 $4000 per month
Diamond 500+ $2000 $5000 $10000-50000 per month
Here are my thoughts:I was a good experience because it exposed me to a see in real life how people think and behave. I have also learned people skills that only you can learn in a multi-level business.
Conclusion: I you want to create a residual, and have a viable business, multi level is a great way to do achieve your goals but Amway is the least paying plan of any multi level I have looked at. Most of the money in Amway plan is at the Diamond level and that is 80% of the total income is coming from sales of tapes etc and not from the actual movement of Amway goods & services.
* Expect to put in minimum 20 hours per week to keep your business
intact.
* Expect to spend atleast $200-$300 per/month in your business.
* Expect a lot of rejection because of name "AMWAY".
* Expect Christianity doses every day.
Sidney:
Your work is tremendous! I will help you out full force if Amway don't clean its act soon. I can create a website called http://www.amway.net to reveal Amway salvage deeds. The Internic charge only cost $100 for two years. Setting up a server will cost about $2000 (price will dramatically drop due to competition) and getting connected to the Internet cost about $30-50/month with a cable connection. Cable can go a speed up to 10 Mbps. This is about 8-9 times faster than a T1.
I wouldn't mind Amway maximize its profit from naive people. The one thing that gets me burning is Amway not willing to compete. In Amway's compedinium, it explicitly says that Amway products are not to be sold publicly. What I don't understand is, the product I bought, seem not to have a resale value. Is there something wrong with this picture? There's nothing in the federal, state, or local laws that forbid me from selling Amway products, and beside I'm Amway distributors not Amway employees; I can do anything I pleased with the product I bought from a company. I, myself, want to maximize profit. If I can sell a well-known product Tide for $200 I would, but the market force that price to about $5. This is good, it allows more people to buy Tide, and less profit to go to the capitalist.
Most people who goes into Amway never understand Economics. This is disheartening. I think America need more people educated in Economics. It seemed that we are crazy with money that we never think through our decision.
I just came across a site that I feel is the scariest thing I have seen yet regarding Amway on the internet. I thought I should bring this to your attention if you have not yet seen it as I am sure it will be of interest to you.
Please check out www.crown-bound.com
Basically it's author, "an ordained Baptist minister" says: "Crown Bound is not a tax-exempt ministry. Though it is indeed a ministry. The decision to not file for exempt status was so we would be free to teach on controversial subjects, take stands that are not politically correct, and escape the grip of a bureaucracy."
It goes on to tell its "followers": "Crown Bound is not a tool to build the Amway business. You have a great system in place and truly professional leaders who will assist you in that realm. We are simply a bridge from your new birth as a Believer to finding a New Testament church, where you can join, fellowhip, and grow spiritually."
He says: "There is nothing in the Bible which instructs us to attend [church] where our honest, goal-driven activities (in this case being in the Amway business) are questioned, maligned or criticized."
This website clearly shows the us/them attitude that is so prevelant and dangerous in that organization. Its author clearly shows why he feels Amway distributors should not go to a church that doesn't think Amway is as wonderful as they do: "Discuss with the Pastor that you are actively involved in building your Amway business...If he is negative, or relates that the church is negative, keep looking. You do not need to attend where there is a primary division with your dreams and goals."
Obviously, this is another way to remove any influential people (such as their pastor) from their distributors' lives before they can talk them out of Amway. It further divides these people from their former lives (when their pastor's opinion mattered to them) and puts Amway ahead of all else.
This author tells his reader what is and isn't acceptable as far as their church and pastor are concerned. Amway invades and dictates ALL aspects of their distributors lives, apparently!
Check out this site to see what else these people are being told about Amway and how it relates to their "Christianity".
Hello Sideny: My name is *. I need some information, I hope you can help or possibly point me in the correct direction. I won't go on and on about my experience with the crazy-upline people. I'm sure you have heard it all before.
When I signed the offical amway contract, my upline had me sign an orgainzational non-amway tools agreement. During the last two years my upline has violated numerous aspects of that contract. They have also violated numerous amway corporate rules. Do you know of anyone that has sued their upline (or parent organization) for breech-of-contract? If so, could you please let me know who, how and what happpened.
Hi Sidney,
I wrote a few years ago to thank you for your page; I circulated it among our workgroup, one of whom was (is) deeply involved in Amway. He's a nice enough guy BTW, but the excellence of your page destroys the myth of success that the Ambots show and has inoculated the rest of us against the disease. Your documention of the sales pitch and attitude is admirable. The "buttons" pushed by an Amway recruiter can be very powerful; the truth is a release from them. I admire and thank you for what you have done.
But what really spurs this message is the endless phrase (used by my co-worker, too) "I'll be on the Beaches of the World...."
Would it be possible for the Amway Corp to specify just one beach for their successful pins? I mean, then there's no chance of a bunch of broke J.O.B. losers polluting the successful in their decades of retirement.
And the rest of us would know the resort to avoid... :-)
Lets just cut to the chase.......Using the Abots figures of 6 billion in Amway sales, and 3 million Amway reps.......... Well my math tells me thats a whopping $2000.00 gross sales per year per rep, or $166.66 per month in gross sales, I am not sure, but I have a hard time believing your going to retire on that!. I can however see how Amway has built quite a business making people think they are investing in themselves when all they are doing is building the Away corperation, now THATS real free market economy! Go Amway:)
I'd like to address this to the person that said they would net 3million from Amway this year.... well you are doing extremley well if you can net 15% after taxes, again based upon this Ambots figure he would be grossing $54,794.52 every day of the week for 365 days..... Yeah, sure, I believe that!
Hi Sidney Schwartz,
I Thank you very much for your homepage. Suddenly I realize that the Internet can be a usefull thing as long as you don't browse the usual stuff. This evening, a friend of my girlfriend came with her brother in law (as her promotor or whatever) to convince us of this incredible deal they had. After 10 minutes I felt that there was "something rotten in the state of Danmark" (shakespeare). Thank God I was awake at school during math. But after my first intuitive disgust I had no real means of warning this friend of what she was getting into. Since she is only beginning, I hope I now have enough ammunition to save her.
It's amazing to see that what you allways have perceived as sensible people, can behave so stupid.
Again Thanks for the info.
Although you have made several valid points, I still fail to see were you are going. As most of the quotes you have are from people who have quite one MLM and joined another. It would seem to me that they are simply slandering an MLM inoreder to get others to join there new Downline. Regaurdless of thier reason though you should still weight the good and the bad. I am only New to amway by 1 or 2 weeks. I have never been told I was going to get anything at cost, nor have I been presured into buying a book or tape of the month. In fact my upline frequently drops by to give me a tape or 2. I don't plan to attend rallies, not unless they are close by, so the point you made on traveling across the country is not valid in my case. When I do go to a rally I don't think I will be wasting money on useless things. Think about it, if you are looking to start a buisness you know from the start that you need to be schrewd anyway. You also know that you have an operating budget until you get things going. If you can't maintain a descent operational budget then why the heck should you have a buisness??? In any case, I can say NO, I can even drive someone upside the head if they get pushy with me. I am not a wimp nor am I stupid. I remember when they said computers were just going to be a fad. Now look at them!! I have to give this a try. If I fail at it, it's my fault not Amways. You don't blame the car when you run out of gas do you? Think about it!
I would like to hear your comments.
You have an interesting site, I've been reading for the last couple of hours and have had enough. I've been a distributor for the last year and am very satisfied with what has gone on in MY business.
You offer a lot of information on your site, some of it may be fact, some true, but I believe that quite a bit of it is incorrect.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I think that if you are not trying to crush the Amway opportunity for many suffers looking for some good information, you should offer a section of links to sites that can offer another perspective, with just as much fact as you claim to post here.
It would be interesting to know what compelled you build such a web site, if you follow the system it does actually work. Bill Britt and Dexter Yager are not the only Amway distributors that are well to do, how do you explain that.
I really hope that you take the time to offer another perspective of Amway to those who are reading your pages, but if you don't, and this message gets posted in the many pages of responses, then the next couple of paragraphs are for THOSE PEOPLE.
FOR DISTRIBUTORS AND POTENTIAL DISTRIBUTORS VIEWING THIS WEB SITE.......
The Internet offers a great variety of information regarding the Amway opportunity and I hope that you take the time to seek out other views that can be found on the internet.
You have or are considering embarking on a truly unique and potentially life changing experience, so take the time to form your own opinion by seeking out ALL the facts.
Don't just accept one perspective if you're serious about this idea. If you're looking for an excuse not to build your business then do yourself and your sponsor a favor and get out. But if you really want something more out of life that you have no way of getting now, this could be it.....GOOD LUCK and GO DIAMOND!!!!
Sidney,
I seems your webpage is having quite an effect on Amway. Keep up the good work! The tools scam (among all the other stuff) is finally getting exposed. Maybe some of the diamonds are starting to feel the effect of people really knowing how they are able to support their lifestyles. As I often heard at meetings ".....Just buy one more tape,....attend one more function.....and you'll find the SECRET!" As the principle of reaping what you sow is always in effect....or, put another way....The circle will close...you are helping to close the circle on the greed rampant in this business. When people really know how their diamonds feel about them (as I did once I pulled out of the system - his comments to me were very clear), they will wake up.
I wanted to share something with you I saw the other day. I was at lunch with a client and saw something I couldn't believe: a high level distributor waiting tables! When we were active, we used to tie in to another organization run by a Pearl. This Pearl had at least two diamonds down line and according to him, over 70+ directs and above. I think this may have been in one leg, but needless to say, he supposedly had a "huge" group.
As I recall, this guy used to slam people for having jobs, since he didn't have to work, and for wives working (and the wimp or loser man who didn't do the business so she could stay home) etc. However, I don't remember his wife particularly slamming jobs. I don't know what changed, but this guy's wife was waiting tables at a hotel restaurant!
I've also seen her working another job at the front desk at the airport hotel. The same place we used to have all of our meetings!
I feel I am a compassionate person and feel sorry for anyone who may have lost their business. As I said, I don't recall her being obnoxious, but her husband sure was and now he's doing the unthinkable, his wife is working! Maybe they got divorced or something as I didn't talk to her. She acted like she didn't recognize me and I didn't want to embarrass her. I don't know, maybe she's just doing it to prospect! So much for a permanent job-free lifestyle (at least at Pearl).
Thought I would share this with you. Just another confirmation. There is a reason the tools business is like it is - it's where the big bucks are made!
a friend of mine convinced me this was the way to freedom. i went to a house meeting and a man talked about what a great opportunity this is and how you could make money from it. i took the plunge, 150.00 , worth. and then he tells me about the eight steps, about things like how it is going to cost around a $110 a month to do the business and how you need to attend all of the functions.
i think i am going to ask for my money back. of course they tell you the rest of the story only after you take the plunge. i have found the experience kind of missleading
I came across your website after I had become an Amway distributor. Fortunately, I recognized quickly that I would spend more than I made, at least at first.
My only regret is that I didn't do my research FIRST.
The folks who recruited me are good friends, and I only wish they could see the truth. Unfortunately, I think they'll have to come by this knowledge on their own.
It is clear that the bulk of the AMO's income comes from the sale of motivational tools, and not from the sale of amway products, and that Amway has done nothing to enforce the 10 customer rule with distributors that are also members of AMO's.
It is equally clear that the bulk of Amway's product is consumed by its distributor base, and that Amway is desperate to keep this knowledge from the general public.
It would seem that if you want to be sucsessful in Amway, your best bet is to get 10,000 people in your downline and start an AMO.
I really like your site; it seems I can't even go out to eat without getting "recruited" these days. Probably over the holiday weekend I'm going to take the time to read it all.
Interestingly enough, my neighbor is in Amway, and after repeatedly trying to recruit me, he settled for just trying to sell me products. Well, we drew up a list of products, and he gave me his prices. So, I went and did a price comparison at the local Sam's Club. Turns out that it's about a 42% higher cost to go Amway. Duh. The best part was, I put it together as an Excel spreadsheet, and he hasn't bothered me since I showed him the sheet. (Of course, this bit of reality hasn't dampened his spirits).
If you would like to have spreadsheet as an entry on your web site, I'd be happy to contribute it.
I have been a dist for 5 years, my CPA signed me up. I "worked" it hard for several years. I was diligent, went to EVERYTHING. I began to question what was going on about a year ago when the SOT went from $5.50 to $6.00. It seemed to me a high price that would further take many people out of the ability to support the "tools" purchases.
When you are recruited you are shown a "lifestyle" of the Diamonds. NOTHING is ever said that over (on average) aprox. 30% comes from Amway, that the vast majority of the income that supports the "lifestyle" comes from the sale of overpriced cassette tapes, meeting fees and books sold thru the Diamond.
THIS IS A FRADULENT INDUCEMENT. Once I began to investigate I informed several people in my group and we all started to "unplug" from what we believe is a fraudulently run business. Amway the company should be seriously taken to task (sued !!!) because they know this is going on and have done nothing other than lip service to stop it. I only wish I had as they say "taken an objective INTELLIGENT examination before joining. I was saluting the Amway flag for quite a while and understand its allure. I am now very successful both in a JOB and another network company, WITHOUT THE SYSTEM !!!! There are other com[panies out there that are honest and legitamate with good products, contrary to what they tell you in the Big "A"!!!!
an aside...what happened to the Hanrahan suit...I opted OUT of the settlement. The proposed settlement was to give all the dist a coupon for a discount on Nutrilite, etc. The "discount" was what a wholesale dist already received by being a dist. I thought that was absurd, in essence the court was REWARDING the guilty party by increasing their volume. What a farce, the "judge" must be a real nut case (or a distributor ???) I generally have respect for the judiciary, but this is a real nutty settlement offer.!! Let me know what happened in re Hanrahan if you have time to answer. I am anticipating filing suit myself shortly with some of my downline and myself vs Diamond Dist.
Hi, I have been a distributor for about 3 years. I did not renew this time. I hate the business with a burning passion. You are absolutely correct about everything you say about this business. One of my goals in life is to do everything I can legally to destroy the Amway opportunity. I was taught how to lie to people and veil the truth. You know how it goes.
Anyway, I currently played along with a guy who "contacted" me. I let him set up an appointment and he showed a decent plan. I am delaying the followup until I can printout enough material such as yours to discuss with this guy. I feel for him because he just finished pre-law at University of Kentucky and seems to be a bright kid. But he says "he" decided not to go to law school because of the "overhead" involved in started "that type of business". Now I don't particulary try to get folks to go to law school except when their goals in life have been replaced with these crappy promises and false dreams planted by some network marketing thief.
Well, you can see that I begin to get a bit emotional about this crap. I support you and would like to tell you that if I can assist you in any way, please let me know. I know this business ruins peoples' lives all so Rich and Jay can sell $7 bottles of shampoo to add to their $3.2 billion net worth each. That doesn't impress me it depresses me because I know how they have cheated folks to get there. Anyway....
Take care, please respond if you have time. You can do it! (hehe) Fired up! Gotta go, Im laughing now.
I am a new Amway distributor and appreciate the incredible effort you and your web-pals have put into this site and some of the links I had a chance to see. I will try to get to all of them eventually.
What is missing, I belive, is your story. What brings you to the level of eyre that encouraged you to be so anti Amway. I believe your motivations (and those of others) if presented forthrightly would help couch your opinions in an objective light.
As I mentioned I did get a chance to look over much in the site. Although I found more fairness in the treatment of Amway products than I expected (ex. performance and value) I found much missing, skewed and incomplete. The times I disagreed with your opinions are so numerous to recount here that I should start a web-site of my own just to keep you up to date. I won't, however, waste my time trying to argue with someone who's mind is so made up he won't listen to facts or opinons of others. I would be pleased to know that you are not as just described.
Stories of individual distributors ( especially those who failed for whatever reasons ) were compelling and worthy of sympathy. I wish they hadn't given up on themselves.
As for for references to "mind control" I am afraid I can't say I have observed any attempt by my upline to exert undue influence over me. By the way the kit includes neither a lobottomy knife nor mind altering drugs. I was not asked to leave my good sense behind as a condition of entry.
The piece on the statistics presents compelling reasons to get in the business, not out. If interpreted correctly it presents a pretty good idea when someone might consider getting out if it isn't doing what they wanted it to do for them.
I personally know Direct Distributors and above who still, after replacing a spouses salary brought the Mom home to raise the family while the Dad actually kept his job because they thought it would be stupid to quit before they built a strong business. (what a concept).
My message is brief. I don't believe you are an unfair person at heart. If you didn't believe in your message, you would not have spent the amount of time and money required to research the issues (albeit incompletely) and present them at your own expense on a web-site. For this I applaude your intentions.
My questions are these; what is it that you don't understand about free enterprize? Is it that it takes effort, effort and more effort and then you still might fail? Is it that sometimes you won't get a guarantee or a safety net; that you actually have to succede or fail on your own? Or is it that no matter where you go you might run into someone who is more successful than you and instead of working to achieve you give-up and place blame back on the achievers? We call that envy where I come from and this web-site is a over-blown testament to sour-grapes
I challange you to present this letter or any well presented rejoinder intact and in an open and notorious location on your site. My feeling is that you probably are so tied up in knots over Amway that you don't have the guts to do so. Supprise me.
I read your article with avidly. I have been hounded by Amway people recently. I firmly believe that Amway is an unethical business. In fact it was gratifying to me that the reasons I felt it is illegal is PRECISELY the one stated in item 26 by P&G in their amended lawsuit.
Greetings,
Well, it is about 4:00 in the morning and I have just finished reading most of your site on the Cult of Amway. Fascinating and very scary. I also just learned from the Amway site that you are the "disgruntled Internet activist" who will be assisting Proctor & Gamble in their suit against Amway. Congratulations and please keep us posted on what happens in the case.
A bit about my personal interest in Amway: About four or five years ago my father and stepmother joined Amway. That my stepmother would join was no surprise, but that my father would fall for it was upsetting. He is a highly intelligent and very skeptical man whom I love very much. Of course, he was soon bothering me relentlessly to join, though he never mentioned it was Amway. I only found out about the Amway part when I finally heard it on the motivational tape that he sent me. You know a company stands for fine family values when it encourages its distributors to deceive their children.
Though I was initially interested in this "exciting business opportunity" (as I said, my father usually has good sense) I luckily never signed up. My father continued to pester me about it for the next three years or so. Needless to say, this put a tremendous strain on our relationship. He basically told me I was a fool for not wanting to join and mocked any career plans I had (I guess being a doctor is nowhere near as rewarding as being an Amway distributor.)
That all stopped about a year ago when a friend and I started our own consulting company. As he sees it now, I am working on my business; he is working on his. Mine actually makes money, though I live in fear that someday we will go bankrupt or something and I will again be subjected to constant Amway harassment.
We no longer talk about Amway. I used to try to debate him on the subject but I have pretty much given up. I tried everything from the factual ("CU says Amway products suck and from my own personal experience I'd have to concur") to the philosophical ("Perhaps it is possible for a person to be happy if they're doing a job they like even if they don't make a lot of money") but that's hopeless. I cannot compete with all of the Amway propaganda he seems to have committed to memory. I also get the feeling that the more I attack Amway the more firmly entrenched he becomes in the Amway camp. They only conversation I've had with him about it recently was to request that he not continue to call my friends to pitch Amway to them (a request he ignored.)
So, as I said, we do not talk about it anymore. I have adopted the philosophy that since I cannot talk him out of it I can only wish him the best and hope that he either makes a profit or gets out before he loses too much money. It might be possible for him to become successful - he totally believes in Amway and some of the things that drive me nuts about him probably make for a good salesperson. But then I see a site like yours and I read the lawsuits, statistics and testimonials and all my experience and fears about Amway are confirmed. I fear there probably will come a day when he finds out that Amway isn't going to make him a millionaire, and that day won't come until he's spent his last dime on product, functions and motivational tapes. I guess I will continue to try to confront him with the facts in a non-threatening manner. After all, if Amway is so great then surely it can withstand a little scrutiny? Hm, probably not. I swear, though, that if _my_ business allows me to retire early my primary hobby after retirement will be trying to expose Amway for the scam that it is. Ironic, isn't it?
Sydney,
Thanks a million for putting in this great effort! There is nothing like a free lunch. I just saw your web site and will try and rescue a friend who tried to recruit me. I am amazed at how blind these amway people become (cult) and completely waste their social lives meeting only with their own and then constantly trying to win more people. I cannot believe they are trying to sell this crappy idea in a society that has seen the fruits of democracy and capitalism. What sort of economic theory can support this amway crap?
Sydney, you are my hero.
Just found your site today after joining Amway in Australia. We believe everything is up to the individual in life - what you put in - you get out. It is not necessary to be pushy to be successful. We have come into Amway through a group who are far from pushy. We are going to give it a go - we will keep you in touch (will email from our yacht in the Pacific Islands LOL)
Only a few months ago I found quite a few topics regarding the negative side of Amway. Now as of 5/25, I find myself really looking for anything that could give me the down side perspective on the Amway business. It has me wondering if Amway has flooded the Internet with its prpaganda in order to push out the negative publicity. I only found a few things regarding the downside and nearly half of those didn't work. Maybe I'm just being perionoid, but I have this gut feeling that my search engine is unable to find much of anything regarding the Amway negatives because of this possible 'flooding' of the Internet. Tell me if I'm wrong please.